Let's fix things

Let's fix things

anchor.fm/letsfixthings
A podcast about Design and Tech


Episode 94 - Design is a mindset, not a skillset
Jul 1 • 13 min
After an initial kick-off with Neeva and its disappointing Digital Bill of Rights (https://neeva.co/digital-bill-of-rights), Guus and Joe turn to the topic of how design jobs are changing. They put fourth that design is a mindset and way of thinking that…
Episode 93 - How does design shape the identity of bots…?
Jun 24 • 11 min
Guus and Joe look at the https://replika.ai/ application, which creates a digital version of your personality, and discuss how bots build and grow their identity. The end of the conversation begins to tackle the future of design as a discipline, which is…
Episode 92 - What if it isn’t temporary?
Jun 18 • 11 min
As stores, restaurants, and cafes open, Guus and Joe discuss the deplorable state of physical space design we now have to deal with. —- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/letsfixthings/message
Episode 91 - We have no real friends anymore
Jun 11 • 15 min
Following up on old episodes of Let’s Fix Things and The Dark Side of Design, which asked “Does it matter if all my friends are only digital”, Guus and Joe continue to explore the topic, now that digital is all we have during lockdown. What do friends,…
Episode 90 - The Don Norman Supplemental
Jun 3 • 5 min
An extra 5-minute episode around Don Norman and design fundamentals. —- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/letsfixthings/message
Episode 89 - Service Design is a tool, not an education
Jun 1 • 14 min
Based off an article written almost a decade ago by Don Norman, Guus and Joe discuss how design education has changed in the last 20 years and the current skill gaps with students exiting university and joining the workforce.…
Episode 88 - Crossy roads and robot dogs
May 25 • 14 min
For the first time in months Guus and Joe are recording from the argodesign studio in brand new isolation booths. The discussion this week focuses on two elements driven from the COVID-19 situation. Dystopian drawbacks and potential new entrepreneur…
Episode 87 - Garbage collection on data
May 20 • 15 min
Starting off of an article where a person managed to get personal data from an old Tesla car, Guus and Joe discuss the ongoing topic of data privacy, data clean up, and regulation. The discussion moves back and forth between company responsibilities,…
Episode 86 - I’m a magic 8 ball
May 14 • 14 min
As we continue to have a global captive audience, industries such as of sports, music, video production, and more are finding new ways to engage with audiences. Applying the rule of “create once, scale infinite” everything is software now. —- Send in a…
Episode 85 - The Changing Times
May 6 • 14 min
Jumping off Marc Andreessen’s It’s Time to Build essay and a post from India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Guus and Joe discuss how the COVID-19 situation is accelerating trends and changing businesses. What companies thought may take another 5 years to…
Episode 84 - We went back to the Matrix
Apr 29 • 18 min
On continued lockdown in Amsterdam during the COVID-19, Guus and Joe look at what technologies might make a leap forward due to this worldwide change in social behavior. While many of us thought AR might be the next big technology, will VR leapfrog it and…
Episode 83 - The isolated world
Apr 21 • 20 min
What happens when truth becomes irrelevant. As the world sits in their homes waiting for the end of the COVID-19 closures, many may fall deeper into their own echo-chambers. With billions of people posting their opinions and their own “truth” beside news,…
Episode 82 - The distributed world
Apr 16 • 19 min
Tackling the situation of the year, Joe and Guus look at how companies are adapting against the new regulations around working from home in a distributed environment. They discuss what they have done with argodesign, and how they challenge other…
Episode 81 - Everything isn’t alright… again
Apr 15 • 18 min
After a one year hiatus, Guus and Joe return to discuss design, technology, regulation, and more. In this episode, they discuss what has happened in the last year, what has changed in moving from Raft to argodesign, quick highlights on the merger, and how…
Let’s fix things 80 – We fixed it
Mar 28, 2019 • 39 min
All good things must come to an end. With Raft changing over and joining argodesign as their European office, Guus and Joe have officially decided to end Let’s Fix Things. In a longer episode, they discuss how Raft started, splitting away from frog…
Let’s fix things 79 – Ethics policy and free floating anxiety
Mar 27, 2019 • 25 min
Prima returns and joins again to discuss the long standing topic of Ethics in design. Hot off the IxDA conference with ethics being a big topic, the trio discuss why designers often miss the conversation, don’t produce results, and how they can begin to…
Let’s fix things 78 – Fake people
Mar 21, 2019 • 26 min
Guus and Joe and joined by new Raft Lead Prima Sung to discuss a recent set of news article around AI being leveraged [weaponized?] to create fake and auto generated content. They discuss how AI is leveraged in creating new materials, and how AI is…
Let’s fix things 76 – I got lost with three words
Jan 21, 2019 • 19 min
Guus and Joe breakdown the pros and cons of the “What 3 Words” mapping service. The go over the positive aspects of mapping areas without physical addresses, and the confusing aspects of why 3 random words, such as “popsicle, idea, shuttlebus”, would…
Let’s fix things 75 – We’re back and forgot this was 75
Jan 15, 2019 • 19 min
It’s good to be home! After being gone for over a quarter, Guus and Joe return to talk about the news of the week. This episodes looks at Mark Zuckerberg’s goal of holding public discussion forums and the ability of Ring camera employees to potentially…
Let’s fix things 74 – Robots are *still cute
Sep 5, 2018 • 21 min
Anki, the company that brought us the robot Cozmo, it back with Vector. A friendlier companion robot. Guus and Joe look at what the different roles and styles of robots / bots currently in the home. The share that while Vector, Alexa, and the Google…
Let’s fix things 73 – We were right
Aug 27, 2018 • 29 min
Guus and Joe review Raft’s 2018 Trends report to provide a mid-year assessment. They speak to three trends and offer support in how they are coming to fruition through the year. They share that trends never arrive unannounced. To be applicable for…
Let’s fix things 72 – Designing agriculture
Aug 26, 2018 • 20 min
Now several weeks removed from returning from Brazil, Guus and Joe discuss their take-aways from the Thought for Food (TFF) Summit. They focus the episode of bringing the humanities and empathy to Agriculture. They review that while food is a cultural and…
Let’s fix things 71 – Client empathy
Jul 19, 2018 • 17 min
In a continuation from last week, Guus and Joe go deeper on the cultural principle of respecting clients through client empathy. They discuss how designers could benefit from understanding the client POV further, whether it be political aspects, internal…
Let’s fix things 70 – A short culture of Raft
Jul 15, 2018 • 23 min
Guus and Joe discuss finally hanging up a series of posters that provide cultural guidance for the Raft office. Sharing their views on why the Raft culture is a bit unique, pragmatic, challenging, and mature compared to other design studios. They engage…
Let’s fix things 68 – Innovation and corporation
Jul 5, 2018 • 17 min
Over the course of their consulting careers, Guus and Joe have worked with multiple companies within their accelerators or incubators. This episode is dedicated to a couple lessons they have learned working in these teams including the need for process,…
Let’s fix things 67 – It’s a choice to be mundane
Jun 12, 2018 • 17 min
After ordering a Revolut prepaid card, Guus and Joe discuss how every company, organization, and team have a choice to either be unique, interesting, and provide a great experience or be mundane and accept the status quo. They put forth the simple theory…
Let’s fix things 66 – DesignOps is what now?
Jun 12, 2018 • 18 min
Guus and Joe look at the growing discipline of DesignOps. The combination of program management for design tools, workflow, process, and integration with the development team. They discuss the need for alignment of tools and planning within larger…
Let’s fix things 65 – Designs future disciplines
Jun 5, 2018 • 21 min
In the last several decades, digital design has been the new mecca for designers. Everyone has rushed to design the latest website or application. Now, as products change, and screen based systems mature, we must ask “what is next for designers”. Guus and…
Let’s fix things 64 – Need for control
May 31, 2018 • 21 min
Are we wise to ask companies to control what we see and hear? Guus and Joe look at the recent trends involving public outcry over content presented through different companies. With fake news being the topic of the year, more people have been asking for…
Let’s fix things 63 – Hey, Google
May 21, 2018 • 21 min
Google I/O happened, and the world is afire with the Duplex demo in which the Google assistant makes a phone call and sounds like a human. Guus and Joe reflect on the ethical stance of this type of situation. That perhaps we don’t live in a simulation,…
Let’s fix things 62 – The GDPR avalanche
May 14, 2018 • 21 min
A second episode discussing the issues around GDPR coming into effect in Europe and what that will mean for companies. The duo discuss the EU cookies regulation, and if these regulations are helping put users back in control, or simply create a “pop up…
Let’s fix things 61 – The impossible design of privacy
Apr 24, 2018 • 26 min
With the countdown to GDPR in the EU and Facebook being questioned by Congress in the US, Guus and Joe look at how to responsibly and ethically design for personal data privacy. The discussion looks at the infuriating task of designing privacy policies…
Let’s fix things 60 – What is the best smart tech?
Mar 26, 2018 • 22 min
During a previous conversation with a silicon valley software native, Guus and Joe discussed what was the best smart technology over the last decade. This week they bring that discussion to Lets Fix Things, sharing views on the different between…
Let’s fix things 59 – When Personas and Statistics Collide
Mar 4, 2018 • 20 min
A dutch supermarket chain accidentally does racial profiling with their personas, Apple’s Homepod is a really expensive speaker, and AmazonGo makes purchasing in real life frictionless. This week Guus and Joe go “old school” discussing several topic in…
Let’s fix things 58 – The Ethics Aftershow
Jan 22, 2018 • 8 min
An impromptu discussion after the last official show reviewing more on ethics, business, and design. —- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/letsfixthings/message
Let’s fix things 57 - Discussing the Ethics of Design
Jan 14, 2018 • 19 min
This week we are joined by Jet Gispen from ethicsfordesigners.com. Guus, Joe, and Jet discuss ethics in design, and how a subjective topic based on personal belief can be brought into constructive team discussions. Jet runs through exercises designers can…
Let’s fix things 56 - The Past Is Always Present In The Future
Jan 4, 2018 • 44 min
This week is about race in design and technology. Guus and Joe talk to Stan Robinson, otherwise known in the Hip Hop world as Substantial. Stan is an accomplished artist who has toured the world multiple times. Stan offers his articulate views on the…
Let’s fix things 55 - Socrates teaches conversations
Dec 19, 2017 • 14 min
Guest Adriana Chiaia joins Guus and Joe to discuss leveraging the Socratic method to have stronger conversations, dismiss bias, and engage those around you in deeper discussions. The group discuss this method focused on questioning and breaking down…
Let’s fix things 54 - Kaleidoscope
Dec 17, 2017 • 16 min
Guest Lily Kolle joins Guus and Joe to discuss a new design toolkit she developed at Raft called Kaleidoscope. A set of questions across the product lifecycle meant to re-frame conversations and solutions. She discusses how to use the cards within…
Let’s fix things 53 - Ame Elliot and designing security, live from ThingsCon
Dec 7, 2017 • 20 min
This week Guus and Joe welcome Simply Secure’s Designer Director Ame Elliot as a guest podcasting live from ThingsCon in Amsterdam. The three discuss the importance for designers to think about security as a design task and design competency. —- Send in a…
Let’s fix things 52 - You’re doing it backwards
Nov 27, 2017 • 14 min
After several days of communication training, Guus and Joe share some of their favorite lessons on presenting content. They discuss starting with what’s important to your audience.Many design presentations start with “what we did, what we heard”, which…
Let’s fix things 51 - Not invented here
Nov 16, 2017 • 23 min
Put your ego aside, have a piece of humble pie, and enjoy this episode as Guus and Joe explain why designers should listen much more than talk. Using multiple examples from past teams (Microsoft, IKEA, and several un-named clients), the duo share examples…
Let’s fix things 50 - On the importance of story
Nov 2, 2017 • 16 min
We’ve hit episode 50! Guus and Joe re- live their first podcast memories of trying to do three episodes in 1 day. This week they discuss the importance of story for designers.The idea that story is not simply for marketing, but a crucial element of how…
Let’s fix things 48 - Of course, Apple
Sep 25, 2017 • 22 min
Guus and Joe review the recent Apple event and announcements. They look at the wireless future Apple is pushing consumers towards with wireless charging, wireless headphones, and the new SIM in the Apple watch. Joe has a moment of quite reflection on…
Let’s fix things 47 - Juicero, we hardly knew ye
Sep 19, 2017 • 14 min
Juicero, a connected IoT cold press juicer, is closing its doors and offering refunds. As a frequent topic early on the podcast, Guus and Joe reflect on Juicero, its supply chain, dreams, and contribution to IoT. —- Send in a voice message:…
Let’s fix things 46 - Immersion is not research
Sep 11, 2017 • 14 min
In todays episodes, we skim the surface of design research, specifically ethnographic research. We discuss common problems we’ve seem, how to avoid these, and why a lot of design research fails to lead to quality insights. We focus on design research…
Let’s fix things 45 - Only 20% matters anyway
Aug 10, 2017 • 18 min
In todays episode we explore the bespoke nature of design consulting and what design managers, teams, and consultancies can learn from larger business consultancies in how they approach programs, clients, and services. We cover a little in our approach at…
Let’s fix things 44 - New customer journeys with Amazon and Whole Foods
Jun 29, 2017 • 21 min
Guus and Joe look at how designers must start to analyze components, primitives, and utilize design research to create a vision for new customer journeys. The duo use the recent Amazon acquisition of Whole Foods as an example showcasing 3 steps for…
Let’s fix things 43 - WWDC & Services are the new hub
Jun 18, 2017 • 40 min
The guys return with a view on two of the critical announcements from WWDC. The AR Tookit and the Homepod. They discuss four critical points stemming from these announcements.1. All hardware is a commodity, Services are now the differentiator2. Designers…
Let’s fix things 42 - We can be optimistic about the future too!
Jun 11, 2017 • 34 min
This week Paul Skinner, Creative Director at Tellart, joins the show to discuss designing experiences in the future based on global macro-trends. Paul gives his view on designing experiences for the future and shares perspectives from his work with the…
Let’s fix things 41 - Context and Designing for the Terms of Service
May 30, 2017 • 23 min
Guus and Joe discuss designers ability to construct effective arguments and how design should be embedded with discussions on regulation, terms of service, and policy. They go through how designing scenarios is not always what it appears and context…
Let’s fix things 40 - How a new industry came together with IKEA TRÅDFRI
May 21, 2017 • 30 min
For two years Joe led the digital efforts on the IKEA TRÅDFRI Smart Lighting product recently released world-wide. Guus and Joe look at IKEA’s new smart lighting product from the view of selling stories, difficult problems in connected devices, and…
Let’s fix things 39 - Squeezing design into juice
May 14, 2017 • 24 min
After a short hiatus Guus and Joe return to discuss Juicero, a connected juicer recently in global news, giving perspectives from multiple design angles explaining why news headlines don’t always do the company justice. The duo cover how the changing…
Let’s fix things 38 - We got what we wanted and we’re still not happy
Apr 9, 2017 • 30 min
Dave Benach joins the podcast to discuss what happens when the worst ethics results in the best user experience. Using Uber as an example, the group explore what’s good for the user, good for the industry, and good for company cultures. They share…
Let’s fix things 37 - Live from the ThingsCon Salon
Apr 2, 2017 • 22 min
Podcasting “live” from the aftermath at the ThingsCon Salon in Amsterdam, Joe and Guus welcome Marcel Schouwenaar, one of the partners at The Incredible Machine. The trio discuss IoT ethics, persuasive design, utopian to dystopian futures, and the IoT…
Let’s fix things 36 - Walking into the burning building of convenience
Mar 25, 2017 • 32 min
Hans Gerwitz again joins Joe and Guus on the podcast to dive into the philosophical side and fixation of designing for convenience. Through better usability, connectivity, and desirability, we are creating a world where people can’t simply “opt out”. They…
Let’s fix things 33 - We’re still paranoid, but that’s ok (with Hans Gerwitz)
Mar 2, 2017 • 31 min
Hans Gerwitz, founder of the Artificial, an Amsterdam based boutique design consultancy, joins the show. With his background in technology and strategy he joins to re-discuss designers responsibility on user privacy and security when designing…
Let’s fix things 32 - Sharing stories from women in design
Feb 20, 2017 • 45 min
This week Joe and Guus are joined by Shannon Thomas (founder at the Artificial) and Lisa Anderson (UX Executive from Microsoft, RGA, Sears). The discussion is open ended sharing thoughts and stories on women in design and technology. The group look at…
Let’s fix things 31 - Diversity stops designers from ruining things
Feb 4, 2017 • 31 min
Back in Amsterdam Guus and Joe kick off with wearables news. Right after they jump into the main topic of diversity in design consultancies. They discuss that having cultural diversity in an office, can help designers understand their own biases with user…
Let’s fix things 30 - Design is not always about the visuals
Jan 23, 2017 • 36 min
Guus and Joe return after a week or both being sick. Joe starts by sharing it’s almost his last week in Malaysia and he’ll soon be returning to Amsterdam. The pair discuss recent news including Nintendo Switch pricing, casual gamers, Swedish ambulances,…
Let’s fix things 29 - Hello World - Trends we would like to see in 2017
Jan 7, 2017 • 48 min
Joined by a small live Skype audience, Joe and Guus open the first show of the new year recapping their Holiday adventures, and thanking listeners. Moving directly into the main topic, at the end of each year many design consultancies showcase their…
Let’s fix things 28 - Abandon your ethics, this is design!
Dec 19, 2016 • 39 min
Losing no time, Guus goes right into the new of Nintendo filing VR patents driving a discussing around the Nintendo Switch, responsive hardware, and why [to Joe] the Switch is a great piece of design, but may not sell well. Guus shares a story on a…
Let’s fix things 27 - India, privacy, and world culture - a designers paradox
Dec 12, 2016 • 37 min
Joe opens recounting his recent time in India. He reflect on meeting a 12 year old girl three year ago, who was the only person to speak English in her colony, and how it changed his life. Joe shares how his encounter changed the way he approaches travel,…
Let’s fix things 25 - Regulators need designers
Nov 28, 2016 • 36 min
Week two from Malaysia and Amsterdam. Guus brings Cozmo to play, but has to power him down after one too many attempts to jump off the table. The duo follow up on Cozmo, and have a short review of why Silicon Valley may think they are inventing the future…
Let’s fix things 24 - Malaysian smart homes & Robots ARE cute
Nov 21, 2016 • 30 min
This week the show goes on the road. After a week of downtime Guus and Joe return with Joe sitting in Malaysia while Guus holds down the office in Amsterdam. Joe opens apologizing for his air conditioning and moves into the news of the US presidential…
Let’s fix things 22 - The future of design talent (w/ Dave Benach of Spark Talent)
Nov 1, 2016 • 45 min
On this show, Dave Benach joins Guus and Joe. Dave runs Spark Talent, a scouting and recruitment agency. His team focuses on design talent, and Dave previously led recruiting at frog design. The trio discuss skills designers, especially students, should…
Let’s fix things 21 - Responsive hardware and making every space personal
Oct 23, 2016 • 36 min
Opening with news of the IoT DDOS attack, they discuss the need for security in IoT, and why designers should pay attention to how devices are set up. They discuss the new Kodak phone (nee camera) engaging in a short discussion that the entire premise…
Let’s fix things 20 - Lessons from industrial design with Lily Kolle
Oct 16, 2016 • 31 min
Guus and Joe welcome their first guest, Lily Kolle, a fellow designer at Raft, to talk about he transition from the world of Industrial Design to screen based UI and UX design. Lily breaks down the idea that Industrial design, interface design, and other…
Let’s fix things 19 - It’s not Google IO
Oct 9, 2016 • 37 min
We have a new introduction! Guus orders a PlayStation VR. The duo discuss VR being used in industries that often appear less tech savvy suck as industrial tiles and banking. The group then breaks down the ‘Made by Google’ event. The discuss the strategic…
Let’s fix things 18 - The reintroduction of specification
Oct 3, 2016 • 36 min
Joe tackles why making connected devices from precious metals is always a bad idea before follow up. Guus and Joe review more on bots and discuss what would make a good retail bot, and how designers should think of handling bot design. They discuss Google…
Let’s fix things 16 - Her is coming
Sep 19, 2016 • 50 min
Fresh back from vacation Joe and Guus hold a longer discussion on recent Apple events. This includes a breakdown between Apple and Amazon within their voice services for controlling connected devices. Joe goes over follow up from the last show looking at…
Let’s fix things 15 - Service providers will eat the Smart Home - Part 3
Sep 11, 2016 • 27 min
The conclusion of the three part episode, Guus and Joe look at how service providers solve current Smart Home pain points. Through bundling and re-selling of services, they can increase distribution, which drives down cost. They can bundle multiple…
Let’s fix things 13 - Service providers will eat the Smart Home - Part 1
Sep 10, 2016 • 28 min
Guus and Joe do a deep dive on how service providers will save the Smart Home through bundled delivery of products and services. Part one explores the importance of the Smart Home - currently seen as more of a novelty interest for geeks, the importance of…
Let’s fix things 12 - Here we go again on Echo and Philips
Aug 22, 2016 • 33 min
Guus opens with a position of bot script writer from booking.com while Joe recaps his comedic conversation with an AT&T sales rep he could only assume was a bot.Joe finally got his Echo set up and decides to hijack half the show discussing topics from…
Let’s fix things 11 - Designers should speak two languages
Aug 20, 2016 • 35 min
Guus and Joe get Amazon Echo’s and proceed to derail the show ignoring their main topic in favor of discussing how voice and natural language UI will change the way designers will need to design. They discuss how different languages have different grammar…
Let’s fix things 14 - Service providers will eat the Smart Home - Part 2
Aug 11, 2016 • 23 min
Guus and Joe continue their deep dive into service providers and the Smart Home by looking at the current problems with mass adoption. These center around 3 distinct areas. High price - With connectivity parts included, the price of connected hardware is…
Let’s fix things 10 - Disney, privacy, and having fun spending money
Aug 8, 2016 • 30 min
Guus and Joe start the conversation discussing their recent trips to the US. Guus got Amazon Echo devices for both of them, although Joe has yet to hook it up since he lacks an adaptor. After 2 weeks there is a lot of news topics to discuss, and the pair…
Let’s fix things 09 - Brainstorming and creating a better connected device UX
Jul 24, 2016 • 33 min
Starting with updates from last week Joe and Guus open by revisiting Pokemon Go and Amsterdam planning to roll out free wifi. The main topic revolves around 3 methods used at Raft to brainstorm on interaction with connected devices. Guus and Joe discuss…
Let’s fix things 08 - The Kobayashi Maru and ethics of connected devices
Jul 17, 2016 • 33 min
This week Guus and Joe ramble and discuss Pokemon Go more than they should, looking at how consumers will trade off privacy and security for convenience and fun - although should companies encourage this trade off, or assist in protecting consumer…
Let’s fix things 07 - Will your kids pay for connectivity?
Jul 16, 2016 • 31 min
Looking forward 10 years, Joe and Guus discuss how and why paying for connectivity, both users and devices, may change. Guus and Joe then look at how connectivity will change over time. Spurred by a conversation with the VP of Cognizent’s Digital…
Let’s fix things 06 - Bundling services in IoT
Jul 15, 2016 • 14 min
AT&T IoT for business In this shorter segment, Joe and Guus quickly look at what it would mean for IoT services to be bundled and sold by larger brands. Larger companies are developing all encompassing platforms while smaller start-ups are pushing out…
Let’s fix things 05 - How connected devices help and hurt brands
Jul 1, 2016 • 31 min
Dedicated to how brands can capitalize on connected devices and becoming more connected brands. Joe starts off discussing Kintsugi, the idea of repairing broken ceramics with gold to make the new product more valuable applies to IoT. Guus and Joe debate…
Let’s fix things 04 - Only when it’s real, do you understand why it’s bad
Jun 26, 2016 • 28 min
This week, Guus and Joe talk about building connected tables, and why connected furniture as we’re seeing it might not be the best idea. Also an involved discussion about why building prototypes is so important to find out how products connect to user…
Let’s fix things 03 - People can’t wait to not use your app
Jun 19, 2016 • 20 min
Joe and Guus discuss customer journeys for connected devices, why apps are not the answer, and what building bots has taught us in the IoT space. Guus discussed building a bot named aio. Joe shares thoughts around companies losing direct touch points with…
Let’s fix things 02 - Reacting to WWDC and Apple Home
Jun 16, 2016 • 29 min
Following on the heals of WWDC, Apple announced Apple Home and Siri in the SDK. Joe and Guus explore the UI aspects of the Apple Home app and what we’d like to see in a UI from a smart home application – hint, it’s not an application. We discuss the need…
Let’s fix things 01 - Everything isn’t alright
Jun 6, 2016 • 28 min
Raft’s inaugural podcast, exploring the question that if we have the right technology, why can’t companies create meaningful and useful IoT products in the consumer space. We believe everything should be magical – that devices and technology should fade…