Unswtnd + Unfltrd

Unswtnd + Unfltrd

www.instagram.com/unsweetenedandunfiltered
A space for women to feel like they are not alone in the hardships or struggles they are facing. Some conversations may be lighthearted, some may touch upon taboo topics, but the overall mission for this podcast is to make every woman realize that she …


The Journey of Finding Love Again and Discussing the Negative Perception of Divorced Women with Lisa Vogl
Sep 22 • 71 min
When it comes to finding a naseeb, it seems like the odds are stacked against us from the start. But as a divorcee, the challenges are stacked even higher.In Ep. 30 of Season 2, we sit down with Lisa Vogl to talk about life post-divorce, the collateral…
UNFLTRD THOUGHTS: Soulmates
Sep 15 • 11 min
On this week’s “Unfltrd Thoughts”, we talk about soulmates and whether or not we think they exist. Life isn’t a Disney movie or romantic comedy starring Meg Ryan & Tom Hanks - unfortunately. But does that mean soulmates are a thing of fiction? The…
Postpartum Journey: Navigating Depression, Bridging the Generational Gap and Loving Our Bodies with Sara Ahmed
Sep 8 • 82 min
No matter how much time you take to prep the nursery, baby-proof your home or reread “What To Expect When You’re Expecting” - nothing will ever truly prepare you for what’s to come.In Ep. 29 of Season 2, we sit down with Sara Ahmed to talk about…
UNFLTRD THOUGHTS: Forgiveness
Sep 1 • 5 min
In our first “Unfltrd Thoughts”, we talk about forgiveness. We dig deep into our own personal process when it comes to forgiving those who’ve wronged us and moments that may signal conflicts that are yet unresolved.One of the hardest relationships to…
The Role Of A Lifetime & How The Role Of Our Parents Can Influence Our Dreams with Zoha Rahman
Aug 25 • 71 min
A chance to play a role of a lifetime is a dream come true for this week’s guest, but how did the role of her parents influence her decision? In Ep.28 of Season 2, we speak to Zoha Rahman, who starred in the Marvel movie, “Spiderman: Far From Home”, as…
Understanding Sexual Health and Confronting Sexual Violence with Aisha Ismail
Aug 18 • 92 min
Trigger Warning: In this episode we discuss sexual violence. If you find this topic to be triggering, please hit pause and check out some of our older episodes instead! Let’s stop beating around the bush when it comes to our bodies and our health….
Why Are We So Afraid Of Letting Go with Shazia Imam
Aug 11 • 73 min
Your happiness shouldn’t amount to the number of checkboxes you tick, but instead the things that truly put your heart and soul at ease. In Ep. 26 of Season 2, we sit down with Shazia Imam to talk about the fear of letting go, cultivating a relationship…
From Broke to Woke: How to Deal with Financial Stress and Take Control of Your Finances w/ Kenya Imani
Aug 4 • 80 min
Your worth shouldn’t be defined by your bank account balance or your credit score, but that shouldn’t mean you should ignore these figures, either.In Ep. 25 of Season 2, Kenya Imani gives us great insight on how to take control of our finances by…
‘Does God Even Know You’, Thoughts on the Evil Eye and “Ramy” with May Calamawy
Jul 28 • 68 min
It’s important to remember that your relationship with God is no one else’s but yours. So learn to leave the judgement, the comparisons and envy at the door. In Ep. 24 of Season 2, we sit down with May Calamawy (again!) to discuss the second season of…
Spiritual Bypassing: How To Not Use Faith as an Avoidance Mechanism with Sumayyah Taufique
Jul 14 • 66 min
No one said practicing self-growth was going to be easy, but we can promise you it will be worth it. In Ep. 23 of Season 2 we sit down with Sumayyah Taufique to discuss self growth, learning how to show ourselves compassion and the concept of spiritual…
Finding Yourself Post Divorce: Honoring Our Hardships And Empowering Ourselves with Hanan Abdel-Khalek
Jul 7 • 69 min
Life is full of unexpected twists and turns, but it’s through these ups and downs that we are shaped into who we are truly meant to be. In Ep. 22 of Season 2, we sit down with Hanan Abdel-Khalek to discuss finding happiness post-divorce, learning to…
Unmasking Microaggressions & Taking Anti-Racism Discussions Beyond The Dinner Table with Eman Idil Bare
Jun 30 • 77 min
Black Lives Matter isn’t an Instagram trend, it’s a commitment to justice. And it’s not just a moment, but a movement that will never not be important. In Ep. 21 of Season 2, we sit down with Eman Idil Bare to discuss her bouts with racism beginning at…
Spiritual Check In: Dealing With Our Nafs And Becoming More God Conscious with Hosai Mojaddidi
Jun 23 • 76 min
How can you tell if it’s your nafs or the Shaytan luring you away from Allah? How many times should you ask for forgiveness for the same sin? What are the differences between a hypocrite and a believer? In Ep. 20 of Season 2, we sit down with Hosai…
The Power Of Our Voices: How To Incite Change by Making an Impact with Jael Kerandi
Jun 16 • 80 min
Your voice is your power. Use it to speak up against any injustices you may see, and fight for what you truly believe in. That’s our duty as Muslims. In Ep. 19 of Season 2, we sit down with Jael Kerandi to discuss the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder,…
From Allies To Accomplices: Fighting Racism Within Our Own Communities with Remaz Khalaleyal
Jun 9 • 73 min
As Muslims, we have no other choice but to stand alongside our Black brothers and sisters. In Ep. 18 of Season 2, we sit down with Remaz Khalaleyal to discuss the recent murder of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis Police, stereotypes and…
How To Harness Your Self-Worth, Finding Purpose Through Pain and Dealing with Toxic Friendships With Fariha Rub
May 26 • 79 min
Finding your tribe is important. That group of women who you can turn to for help, to have a good time with or seek advice from. But we all know, making friends as adults doesn’t come easy. In Ep. 17 of Season 2, we’re joined by Fariha Rub, aka The…
The Unconscious Mind: How To Silence Our Mental Chatter and Protect Ourselves From Loneliness and Disconnection with Iman Boundaoui
May 19 • 91 min
What goes on in your mind has the power to change your life. But when you have a million thoughts racing through your head all at once, it’s hard to focus on the present moment.In Episode 16 of Season 2, we are joined by Iman Boundaoui to discuss…
The Benefits Of Laylut Al-Qadr: Making Dua And The Power of Istikhara Prayer with Youssra Kamel Kandil
May 12 • 57 min
Whether you think time is flying by or it’s stuck at a standpoint, we’ve made it to the final ten days of Ramadan, alhamdillah! In Episode 15 of Season 2, we are joined by Youssra Kamel Kandil to talk about how to make the most of the time we have left…
A Black Muslim Woman’s Fight Against Anti-Blackness and Islamophobia with Ayesha Jihad
May 5 • 71 min
Unfortunately, Muslims are used to being on the opposite end of racism and inequality. What’s even more disappointing than that, is when at times that intolerance may also be coming from our own Ummah. In Ep. 14 of Season 2, we sit down with Ayesha…
Purifying Our Intentions, Softening Our Hearts and Understanding Allah’s Mercy with Fatima Shendy
Apr 28 • 77 min
The goal isn’t to just make it through this month, but it’s to leave it a better person than when we had entered it. In Episode 13 of Season 2, we’re joined by Fatima Shendy to talk about purifying our intentions, understanding Allah’s infinite mercy…
Simple Tips For A Successful Mind & Body Connection During Ramadan with Zainab Ismail
Apr 22 • 70 min
With Ramadan on the horizon, most of us are wondering how we’ll survive the coffee-withdrawals, thirst and random hunger pains.In Ep.12 of Season 2, Zainab Ismail aka Zainab Fit For Allah gives us some insight on how we can achieve a healthy and…
The One Ramadan We’ll Never Forget With Amasi Decor
Apr 15 • 62 min
We have waited all year for this month: Taraweeh prayers, azumas surrounded by loved ones and the chance to bond with family and friends!But this year we’ll forgo the gatherings for our own safety and this Ramadan will definitely be one to remember. In…
You’re Not Alone: Dealing With Sadness and Hopelessness with Berak Hussain
Apr 8 • 81 min
*TRIGGER WARNING*: In this episode we discuss mental illness, suicide and self-harm in length. If you feel the content discussed may be triggering, please either proceed with caution or feel free to listen to any one of our previous episodes. We have…
From Finding God To Life After Taking The Shahada with Rebecca Khan
Apr 1 • 72 min
We often hear stories about why people decided to convert to Islam, but what’s life like after taking the shahada?In Ep. 9 of Season 2, Rebecca Khan shares with us her journey to becoming Muslim and what attracted her heart to the religion. A change of…
Mother and Daughter: An Open Dialogue About Depression and Anxiety w/ Summer Shatat and Bayan Rafati
Mar 25 • 105 min
There’s no set guideline on what to do when it comes to helping your child through their mental illness and no such thing as a perfect parenting plan.In Ep. 8 of Season 2, we sit down with Summer Shatat and her 17 year-old daughter, Bayan Rafati, to…
Dedicating Our Lives To Uncovering The Truth and Facing Our Fears with Malika Bilal
Mar 18 • 69 min
We’re done with allowing fear to dictate our lives and keep us from truly living out our dreams. In Ep.7 of Season 2, we talk to Malika Bilal about how we can look our fears straight in the eye, and conquer them. When it came to choosing a career,…
First Comes Love, Then Comes Marriage: How To Maintain A Happy and Healthy Marriage While Avoiding Pulling Out All Of Your Hair w/ Yasmin ElHady aka YasGuru
Mar 11 • 91 min
After the big white dress is taken off, the party planners have packed away all of the decor you spent months going back and forth on and the guests have all gone home - that’s when reality really kicks in. In Ep. 6 of Season 2, we are joined by…
One Year Down + Inshallah Many More To Go: Celebrating Sisterhood And Placing Our Faith in the Forefront With Hassanah El-Yacoubi
Mar 4 • 102 min
Let the zagroutas ring like Shakira at this year’s Super Bowl Half-Time Show! We have a lot to celebrate this week: Our one-year anniversary, International Women’s Day and a very special guest!In Ep.5 of Season 2, we sit down with Hassanah El-Yacoubi or…
Inspiring Teachers: Educating and Empowering Our Youth with Bayan Founas
Feb 26 • 89 min
Toss out those outdated lesson plans and forget about sticking to the book. In Ep. 4 of Season 2, we are joined by Detroit educator, Bayan Founas, who is truly redefining what it means to be an educator.Teaching is by far one of the most important…
Lights, Camera, Action: Following Your Dreams and Narrating Your Own Life Story with Samah Safi Bayazid
Feb 19 • 74 min
We’re flipping the script and rewriting our own narrative!In Ep 3 of Season 2, we’re joined by award-winning screenwriter, filmmaker and producer Samah Safi Bayazid - talk about being a triple threat! Going against cultural norms and paving a way for…
Finding Your Naseeb: The Good, The Bad, and The Extremely Awkward with Suzanna Anani
Feb 12 • 101 min
There are a few things in life that are hard to find: perfectly fitting jeans, eyeliner that doesn’t smudge, and a naseeb. In Ep 2 of Season 2, we’re joined by Suzanna Anani, a 26 year old Palestinian-American from the D.C. area, for a much needed girl…
Domestic Violence: From Victim to Survivor
Feb 5 • 117 min
*Trigger warning: We discuss domestic violence in length throughout this episode. If you feel the content discussed may be triggering, please either proceed with caution or feel free to listen to any one of our previous episodes.* In our first episode…
Kissing 2019 Goodbye and Finally Taking Our Own Advice
Dec 25, 2019 • 69 min
In Episode 40, we’re kissing 2019 goodbye. Ma3a salama!We sit down to answer all of your questions. Some are intense and raw, like “What stands between you and becoming a happier person?”Others are a bit more silly, like “What’s the stupidest thing…
Finding the Silver Lining Within Our Hardships and Embodying Gratitude with Lina Bettayeb
Dec 18, 2019 • 65 min
In Episode 39, Lina Bettayeb joins us as she dives into the family trip that had completely changed her life. At the age of 16, Lina and her family embark on a journey to Umrah. Her memory jumps from a joyous van full of her loved ones on their way to…
Creating a Sisterhood and Finding Your Purpose on Social Media with Erim Kaur
Dec 11, 2019 • 78 min
In Episode 38, we are joined by our special guest Erim Kaur, the big sister you never knew you needed. Erim opens up about losing her mom at the age of 8, growing up without any sisters and being raised by her father and grandparents.Using her life…
Grieving a Miscarriage, Coping with Infertility and the Truth About IVF with Pari
Dec 4, 2019 • 92 min
Grab a tissue…no wait, go back for the entire box. Trust us, you’ll need it! In Episode 37, Pari joins us for an emotional yet inspirational conversation about infertility and the struggles she had faced, both physically and mentally, as she navigated…
Love and Marriage, Toxic Partners and Building a Relationship with God feat. Ascia Sahar
Nov 27, 2019 • 95 min
Love and marriage, love and marriage…in Episode 36, Ascia Sahar joins us to talk about all things relationship related. When it comes to toxic relationships, Ascia says she is no stranger to them. The now-mother of three walks us through the moment…
Living with Depression/Anxiety, Struggles with Birth Control and First Generation Guilt with Hemali Mistry
Nov 20, 2019 • 74 min
In Episode 35, we sit down with Hemali Mistry as we dive into an unfiltered conversation about mental health, birth control, the struggle of being a first-gen child and the effects social media can have on our lives. You may know Hemali from her page,…
Walking Away from Toxic Friendships, Mourning Relationships and Forgiving Yourself with Dear Chereen
Nov 13, 2019 • 64 min
Move over Dear Abby! In Episode 34, we are joined by Chereen, a therapist, life coach and the mastermind behind DearChereen.com. In a much needed therapeutic episode, we discuss grief in all of its varying forms. Chereen explains that grieving is an…
Double Standards, Dissecting the Fragility of Our Reputations as Women and Encouraging Sisterhood with Dearborn Girl
Nov 6, 2019 • 70 min
In Episode 33, we take U+U on the road for the first time as we sit down with the brilliant minds behind Dearborn Girl, the podcast. You read that right, your two favorite podcasts all in one episode! It can’t get any better than this. Rima, Yasmeen and…
Dealing with Criticism for Being a Non-Hijabi, Overcoming Heartbreak and Juggling Life
Oct 30, 2019 • 63 min
In Episode 32, we’re shaking things up a bit and bringing you guys in on the conversation. To mark being on-air for more than 6 months, we reached out to our supporters who didn’t hold back when it came to asking super intimate and personal…
Removing the Hijab, Connecting With God Spiritually and Ritualistically and Losing a Parent with Alia Taha
Oct 23, 2019 • 114 min
In Episode 31, Alia Taha joins us as she shares her take on the current state of the hijab. As a hijabi, Alia offers some insight on the battle most women are dealing with; the struggle to keep it on. As we have seen an influx of women deciding to…
Finding Your Voice in the Workplace, Battling Imposter Syndrome and Promoting Sisterhood with Sofia Haq
Oct 16, 2019 • 73 min
There’s nothing dirty about our Dirty 30 episode. We decided to keep it professional as we’re joined by Sofia Haq, the founder of Muslim Women Professionals. MWP is an organization that promotes empowerment amongst Muslim women by educating, uplifting,…
Empowering our Daughters, Juggling Marriage and Motherhood and Rediscovering Who We Are with Sahar Hamdan
Oct 9, 2019 • 74 min
In Episode 29, Sahar Hamdan-Khalaf stops by to talk to us about marriage, motherhood and how she’s taking the necessary steps to rediscovering herself after all these years. Sahar fell in love and got married at the age of 18 and one year later she…
Expect the Unexpected: Navigating Life in My Thirties with Breast Cancer w/ Bassema Yousef
Oct 2, 2019 • 84 min
In Episode 28, we kick off Breast Cancer Awareness Month with Bassema Yousef. Statistically - less than 2% of all women diagnosed are in their early to mid 30’s and in a series of unfortunate events, Bassema became part of that statistic.In an extremely…
Finding the Root of Happiness Through Faith and Positive Thinking with Aminah Musa
Sep 25, 2019 • 105 min
In Episode 27, we sit down with Aminah Musa at The Wing and we dive deep into who this powerhouse of a woman truly is. Many of you may know Aminah from her brand, PaliRoots, which she runs alongside her brother Hussein. Through this movement she has…
Befriending Failure and Embracing Our Thirties with Sahar Shafi
Sep 18, 2019 • 65 min
In Episode 26, Sahar Shafi leaves us feeling all types of ways with her vulnerability, honesty and all around adorable charm. Although, she’s currently a successful Periodontal & Implant Surgeon (mashallah), Sahar tells us she’s no stranger to…
From Shamed to Unashamed: Turning Wounds Into Wisdom with Khitam Masoud
Sep 11, 2019 • 76 min
In Episode 25, we are joined by Khitam Masoud, a cancer survivor and nonprofit organization founder. In 1998, when she was just 16 yrs old, Khitam decided to take her parents to court and fight for her emancipation in order to avoid an arranged…
Practicing Mindfulness & Sunnah Through our Diet with Alaa Elharezi aka Haus of Blush
Sep 4, 2019 • 82 min
In Episode 24, Alaa Elharezi enlightens us as we talk about health and wellness in a whole new way. As a certified Hijama therapist, Yoga Instructor and Ayurvedic Health Advisor, Alaa offers up some simple ways to improve our daily lives and overall…
“No, I’m Not Done Venting” with Ayesha Malik
Aug 28, 2019 • 54 min
In Episode 23, we are joined by Ayesha Malik, the Pakistani-American woman who unapologetically called out Priyanka Chopra at Beautycon. The reason for the confrontation: Kashmir. Pakistan and India have been in a custody battle over Kashmir for over 7…
Pelvic Pain, PMS, Migraines and Everything in Between with Heba Shaheed
Aug 21, 2019 • 94 min
In Episode 22, we get down to the real truth with Heba Shaheed, in regards to period pain, the many myths surrounding PMS, how to be more in tune with our bodies and the importance of mental health overall! Heba provides women’s health and pediatric…
Conversations with a Muslim Therapist and Learning How to Humanize our Prophet with Sara Bawany
Aug 14, 2019 • 99 min
In Episode 21, Sara Bawany gives us a crash course on all things mental health. Scheduling an appointment with a therapist isn’t on the top of every Muslim’s to-do list due to the intimidation and misconceptions that surround therapy, however, Sara…
Intercultural Marriage, Infertility and the Shift in Modest Fashion With YazTheSpaz
Aug 7, 2019 • 77 min
In Episode 20, we chat with Yasemin Kanar aka YazTheSpaz and trust me she doesn’t hold back. Yasemin gives us an in depth look into the melting pot of cultures which is her life. With a mother from Cuba and her father from Turkey, she decided to add to…
Sorry Not Sorry with Jackie Courtney
Jul 31, 2019 • 85 min
In Episode 19, we talk to Jackie Courtney, the mastermind behind the incredible website NearlyNewlywed.com. Prior to creating Nearly Newlywed, Jackie worked as a publicist for international fashion designers including Marni, Thakoon, Matthew Williamson…
Navigating Life Through Trauma and Body Dysmorphia with Leah Vernon
Jul 24, 2019 • 73 min
In Episode 18, Leah Vernon blessed us with her presence. As a plus-size model, author, body-positive activist and Muslim feminist, Leah is creating a new narrative for women who don’t fit into normalized beauty standards. We dive deep into Leah’s…
Dear Baba, I Miss You with Mna Eldaas
Jul 17, 2019 • 70 min
Grab some tissues! In Episode 17, we talk to Mna Eldaas, who unfortunately lost her father to liver cancer in 2016. Coming from an extremely tight-knit family, Mna walks us through the pains, struggles and upsets she had experienced after his passing….
A Mother’s Intuition with Fawzieh Kahook Awad
Jul 10, 2019 • 63 min
In Episode 16, we sit down with Fawzieh Kahook, a mother of two beautiful boys. Fawzieh walks us through the first time she began noticing things about her younger son that set him from apart from his older brother. These little red flags set alarms off…
How to Heal Post Divorce
Jul 3, 2019 • 67 min
In Episode 15, we are joined by an anonymous guest who takes us through the roller coaster ride that was her marriage. An unexpected pregnancy and already unsure of where her relationship stood, she discovers something truly unbelievable about her now…
Unapologetically Me with Shaymaa Ismaa’eel
Jun 26, 2019 • 83 min
In Episode 14, Shaymaa Ismaa’eel joins us to discuss her journey in connecting spiritually to her faith. Although, that journey varies from one person to the next, Shaymaa’s approach to finding her place in Islam is truly inspirational. We also talk…
Eating Disorders in the Muslim Community with Adeline Ania Hocine
Jun 19, 2019 • 63 min
TRIGGER WARNING: This episode focuses primarily on eating disorders. If you feel the content discussed could be triggering, please either proceed with caution, or feel free to listen to any one of our previous episodes. In Episode 13, Adeline Ania…
Defeating Postpartum Depression with Faten Albanna
Jun 12, 2019 • 71 min
In Episode 12, we are joined by Faten Albanna, a teacher, photographer and mother of two who had suffered from Postpartum Depression. PPD is the most common pregnancy complication, with one in seven mothers experiencing it, but it is still highly…
Allow us to Reintroduce Ourselves with Zaina and Dounya
Jun 5, 2019 • 76 min
In Episode 11, we celebrate our three month anniversary! Yes, three months despite what Zaina might have said - hey we never promised to be good at math lol! To commemorate this milestone we get a little personal by letting our walls down and by…
Spiritual Healing with Youssra Kandil
May 29, 2019 • 55 min
In Episode 10, we sit down with Youssra Kamel Kandil, a motivational speaker whose videos have gone viral by capturing the hearts of thousands of Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Youssra shares her thoughts on maintaining patience during hardships,…
Using our Platforms for Good with Isra Chaker
May 22, 2019 • 48 min
In Episode 9, we are joined by Isra Chaker, a civil rights activist, campaigns and advocacy expert, and public speaker. Isra walks us through her high school days and explains how the bullying she endured essentially influenced her decision to become an…
Breaking the Silence Around Infertility with Faten Odeh
May 8, 2019 • 62 min
In Episode 8, our guest Faten Odeh shares her story about her struggles with infertility. We learn about the IVF process and the effects it has had on her physical and mental health. Faten discusses the hardships she has dealt with in regards to…
Beyond the Kitchen with Abeer Najjar
May 1, 2019 • 98 min
In Episode 7, we discuss food, self love, improving ourselves spiritually for Ramadan and everything in between with Abeer Najjar. Abeer is a self-taught chef, blogger and the founder of the Huda Supper Club. Through her Palestinian background and her…
Overcoming the Fear of Hijab with Nilly Naseer-Farooqui
Apr 24, 2019 • 47 min
In Episode 6, we are joined by the lovely Nilly, who is behind the Instagram page @wordsbehindasmile , to discuss all things hijab related! She shares her story behind the first moments in her life where she decided to put the headscarf on. Nilly gives…
Overcoming Anxiety & Depression with Summer Shatat
Apr 17, 2019 • 74 min
In Episode 5, we get real with Summer Shatat, the owner of Anonymous Addictions. She is a daughter, mother, wife, entrepreneur and mental health advocate. Summer opens up about her struggles with anxiety, PTSD and depression that all stem from a…
‘Not Your Habibti’ with Yasmeen Mjalli
Apr 10, 2019 • 45 min
In Episode 4, we bring on Yasmeen Mjalli, the founder of BabyFist. She is the driving force behind the three words that have started a revolution, Not Your Habibti. We discuss the need to confront street harassment head on while also educating young…
Preserving Our Identities with May El Calamawy
Apr 2, 2019 • 41 min
In Episode 3, we talk to May El Calamawy who stars in the upcoming American comedy series titled “Ramy” which is set to premiere on April 19th on Hulu. The show follows the life of a first-generation Egyptian American Muslim learning to balance his…
Finding the Silver Lining with Lisa Vogl
Mar 26, 2019 • 36 min
In Episode 2, we are joined by Lisa Vogl, who is an award winning international fashion photographer and founder of Verona Collection modest fashion brand. Vogl’s Verona Collection is aimed at Muslim women and others who prefer to dress modestly. The…
The Dark Side of Our Culture with Etaf Rum
Mar 19, 2019 • 37 min
In Episode 1, we are joined by Etaf Rum, author of the debut novel “A Woman is No Man”. We kick off our podcast with a discussion about marriage, divorce, domestic violence, etc. We dive into the notion of culture versus religion, how our community is…
Unswtnd + Unfltrd: It’s Really Happening!
Mar 6, 2019 • 17 min
Welcome to the Introduction Episode of the “Unsweetened & Unfiltered” podcast. Hosts, Zaina and Dounya, are so excited to start this new venture! They discuss the need for this initiative and what to expect in the upcoming episodes. Get to know them…