The Smallholder Food Business Development Institute Podcast

The Smallholder Food Business Development Institute Podcast

www.sfbdi.com/proofingbox
Join Dr. Michele Pfannenstiel, food safety expert, business coach, life coach and blow your own mind with possibility. What if there was a totally different way to do a food business? Where profitability was front and center and employees and senior management work together to build the business? At the Smallholder Food Business Development Institute, we show you how. We have the technical expertise for your trickiest questions and the tenacity to ask the hard ones. Make more money, know your business inside and out, sleep better and build the business the universe is calling you to build.


96- The Language of Food Safety
Aug 6 • 26 min
I say HACCP, you say HACCP…and we mean different things… Say wha?! Crazy, I know. But join me for this podcast and learn about the vocabulary! Let’s clear all that up so that you can get your plans written!
95- How to be a product of your product
Jul 30 • 28 min
You food changes lives. How do I know this? Because it’s changed mine. Yours, my clients, the whole smallholder food movement…it changes lives. And changing lives is tough work and requires a lot of you. And when the going is rough, I want you to think…
94- Interview with Tracy Hoth
Jul 23 • 30 min
What’s the mindset around being organized? That’s the real question. Anyone can 5S their facility once…but it takes a lot more brain work to keep your facility and stuff under control.
93- Attachment versus Commitment
Jul 16 • 37 min
We talk a lot about goal setting around here and it is easy to go down the rabbit hole of attachment to goals. Commitment though, is much more powerful. Both can be useful, but commitment will get you everywhere, where as attachment doesn’t. Tune in to…
92- You and your business
Jul 9 • 26 min
Let’s diving into your relationship with yourself…what are the things you build your life on? Are they what you want to bring forward into your future?‚Äč The foundations of freedom and opportunity are pretty simple… Wealth Community Compliance When we work…
91 - Interview with Matt Kuchera of Vet Pivot
Jul 2 • 38 min
Vets- listen up! This vet is talking to another awesome vet this week. Matt runs Vet Pivot, works in finance and is the walking definition of amazing. We cover lots of awesome stuff for non vets in this one as well, so you will all want to tune in!
90- Interview with John Stoj
Jun 25 • 29 min
Talking finance and small business today on the podcast. We’ve got a fun interview with John Stoj out of Sandy Springs, GA. He’s a whiz at all things finance for small business. Finance and the world we live in today is no easy task, but John makes it…
89 - Inclusive Excellence Part 2
Jun 18 • 35 min
Last week I talked about the mindset around racial justice. This week is the how. - Learn how to go through a SOP so that it works for you. - Learn the 3 key pieces of implementing an Inclusive Excellence SOP. Need the SOP? Join us at the Proofing…
88 - Inclusive Excellence in Food Production Part 1
Jun 11 • 34 min
The goals of Inclusive Excellence are - to center to conversations of our colleagues of color and other cultures in ways that they wish to be centered - to be an example of what is possible when we dig into discomfort - to be an example of what a white…
87 - Interview with Paula Horne
Jun 4 • 23 min
Join us for this fascinating interview with Paula Horne, entrepreneur extraordinaire. Learn how she’s transitioned out of the military and into a world of hot sauce. Our conversation is fun and chock full of what you need to know as you are getting your…
86 - Monitoring and verification
May 28 • 30 min
I get it…you think monitoring and verification is wicked boring/tedious/hell of a lot of work Here’s the deal, you can change your whole outlook on your business by approaching monitoring and verifications as activities that create wealth, community and…
85 - Interview with Jeff Hahn
May 21 • 34 min
Jeff Hahn is the owner and principal of Hahn Public. Jeff focuses on brand crafting, message development and crisis communications and I ask you…how desperately is that needed right now? Grab a pen and be prepared to take notes on how you can lead through…
84 - Providing value changes people’s lives
May 15 • 37 min
As local food has its moment, we are finding out a LOT about value and pricing. What do we mean when we say value? How are making sure you are delivering value to your customers? How does that affect your profit? Grab your pen, paper and brain and let’s…
83 - Interview with Larry Shiller
May 7 • 30 min
This week I talk to Larry Shiller, an educator and practitioner of how grit and resilience can be used in our lives and workplaces. How gritty are you? Find out here https://www.gritterprofile.org/
82- Tracing and Lotting
Apr 30 • 19 min
How does something so prosaic as trace and lotting create wealth and freedom? Such a great question, I am glad you asked! Because this episode will not only tell you how freedom lies on the other end of a functioning trace and lot program, but, how to do…
81 - Interview with Cristina Roman
Apr 23 • 33 min
Are you ready to get your time management game on? Join me for an amazing interview with Christina Roman of Pique Coaching She’s an expert at helping you focus and get your work done, quite getting distracted and get the results you want in your business…
Minisode- Mobile Slaughter
Apr 19 • 28 min
There are so many questions out there about mobile slaughter, and this episode is all about answers… Humane handling Water/sewage- and errata here…I am off by an order of magnitude it is 0.3 gallons of water per pound of value added processing. Join us at…
80- CCPs and CLs
Apr 16 • 34 min
That is Critical Control Points and Critical Limits Know ‘em, love ‘em and execute them with perfection. Find out how…
79 - Interview with Sheila Austin
Apr 9 • 35 min
Join us as Dr. P talks to Sheila Austin. Sheila is doing some really interesting things in small ruminants in FL. Her experience and insight is invaluable if you are thinking about going into processing.
78 - All boats rise, a pathway to a secure regional supply chain
Apr 2 • 28 min
I have a radically new approach to regional food supply chains. This is information that our communities need, right now. How do you approach your supply chain? How do you manage your supply chain? What if it isn’t all as hard as you think?
77 - Interview with Barbara Shepherd
Mar 26 • 26 min
Join me as I interview Barbara Shepherd a cannabis entrepreneur. This fascinating conversation covers a wide range of things you need to be thinking about as you start your cannabis venture.
76- Justifying your decisions in your hazard analysis
Mar 19 • 29 min
In this week’s episode we are covering some discussion about corona virus to start and then we are diving into justification for decisions in your hazard analysis. Really…why are hazards NRLTO or RLTO? Even know what that means? Well listen in and find…
75 - Interview with Felicia Broccolo
Mar 12 • 32 min
Felicia is an amazing coach who really gets performance. She started her coaching business from a conversation about clean eating and body image. Do you know what conversation your target market is having about their foods? Tune in to find out.
74 - Interview with Kelly Hanlin McCormick
Mar 5 • 33 min
Anxiety. It might actually be a public health crisis. I have anxiety, you might, or someone you know and love might. Join us for a magical conversation with Kelly, a superb life coach who focuses on transforming anxiety from something terrible…to…
73 - How to do a hazard analysis
Feb 27 • 49 min
We’ve gone through the five pre-steps of HACCP and now we are on to the meat of the matter as it were. And here is where everyone gets stopped. Stopped in confusion and overwhelm and regulations and AIGH ISN’T THIS SUPPOSED TO BE A CCP. That overwhelm all…
72- Branding with David Lemley of Retail Voodoo
Feb 20 • 43 min
Branding. Live by it. If your brand ain’t working for you, it ain’t working. Join us as I chat with David Lemley of Retail Voodoo on how to get your brand squared away. And then of course, it is off to the welders with you so you can get one for your…
71- Productive Negative Emotions
Feb 13 • 29 min
Negative emotions can be in us and drive us forward and… nothing is going wrong. Feelings always create actions. You get to figure out if they are going to drive actions that move you forward.
Tech Talk- Corona virus and zoonotic disease
Feb 11 • 19 min
I get it, folks are worried. But, listen, this doesn’t have to overwhelm you. Simple measures around handwashing and biosecurity are the name of the game. If you’ve got questions head on over to The Proofing Box and ask ‘em!
70- The 5 Pre Steps of HACCP- Step 5 Verify your Process Flow Diagram
Feb 6 • 29 min
A verified Process Flow Diagram. You either have it or you don’t. Many is the time I’ve walked through a plant and said “did anyone actually LOOK at this?” because “umm, no” is usually the answer. Let’s fix that shall we?
69 - Intro to The Proofing Box Pt 4- Leadership and Service
Jan 30 • 30 min
Are you ready to create results? Leaders create results. What would your life look like if you stepped into leading yourself? It sounds simple, and it can be. But, acknowledging and stepping into your own leadership is a profound journey. Local food needs…
68- Intro to the 5 Pre-Steps of Food Safety Planning Step 4 Process Flow Diagramming
Jan 23 • 39 min
Seriously, what could be more fun than process flow diagramming? The ANNOUNCEMENT I am coming out with for my veteran community. How do we do it around here? We build community.
67- Book Yourself Solid Part 2
Jan 16 • 30 min
In this episode I go over the STRIVE questions and the thought management process that I use to create trust and credibility. It doesn’t matter what you are selling, you need to manage your mind to achieve the results you are looking for.
66 Book Yourself Solid Part 1
Jan 9 • 21 min
What if everything you knew about marketing and sales was wrong? Join me for this first in a 4 part series on exactly how to sell to grow and scale your business .
65- Managing your Inventory Part 1
Jan 2 • 50 min
Join me with Charlie Tidd (my awesome brother) as we talk about managing inventory inputs. This episode is going to change everything about how you see all that stuff stacked up in your walkins, your coolers and freezers.
64- The 5 Pre-Steps of Food Safety Planning Step 3
Dec 27, 2019 • 17 min
Step 3 of pre planning for success is understanding your customer and understanding how your customer consumes your food. The bigger question here is how are you providing value to your customer, and then tying that value to your food safety plan.
63- Intro to The Proofing Box Part 2: Leadership
Dec 19, 2019 • 29 min
The underlying stability of The Proofing Box is the mindset management around leadership. What is it, how do you understand it and how do you practice your own leadership?
62 - 5S your Food facility
Dec 12, 2019 • 36 min
An encore presentation of our 5s discussion with Charles Tidd. Join us this week on the podcast where Dr. P and Charlie Tidd talk about the basis of 5S in food manufacturing and how they can help you in your own facility.
61 - The 5 pre steps to food safety planning series: Step 2
Dec 5, 2019 • 30 min
You’ve formed your team. Now what. Now you have to describe what you make. It shouldn’t be hard…and yet.
60- Introduction to The Proofing Box- Leadership and Your Minimum Viable Product
Nov 27, 2019 • 27 min
Why is leadership tough? How have you go about solving your leadership problems and what hasn’t worked? What is your MVP and how can you use this concept to drive your business forward?
59- Feeling Marginally Less Awful
Nov 21, 2019 • 24 min
Let’s not shoot for the stars just yet… Let’s just start with the 3 steps to feel marginally less awful
58- The 5 Presteps of Food Safety Planning Intro and Step 1
Nov 14, 2019 • 36 min
You’ve decided to embark on a food business. Now you need a food safety team. Why? Food safety is a team sport! Listen in for the history of food safety planning, how we got here, and how to start on your documented food safety plan.
57- Obvious Results
Nov 7, 2019 • 23 min
How do we look at the obvious results? - Health - Wealth - Relationships Why do we look at the obvious results? Because telling ourselves truth, even if it is optional thoughts, creates clarity and allows us to manage our minds, which is the KEY asset in…
56- Feed and feeding of food animals
Oct 31, 2019 • 32 min
On today’s episode we are going to cover what to feed your food animals. Primarily cattle and hogs. Let’s get some feed biochemistry going my friends!
55- Questioning Assumptions
Oct 24, 2019 • 28 min
One of the best tools in my mind management toolkit is questioning assumptions. What assumptions do I make in around my thoughts? Asking this question takes thought work to the next level and can create massive breakthroughs in your life. Learn the 5…
54- African Swine Fever
Oct 17, 2019 • 44 min
I’ve gotten a ton of questions on ASF. Well, here are some answers. The short version…if your pigs are blue and dying, call your state vet. The podcast covers a bit more than that though, so tune in!
53- Stop Hugging the Cactus
Oct 10, 2019 • 32 min
Guess what? Negative thoughts about everything…are totally optional. What would happen if you decided that your negative thoughts, when they happen, aren’t serving you? Miracles, that’s what. You’ll feel like you lost 20# in an instant. Join me and learn…
52- On farm/initial production QA programs for animal based proteins.
Oct 3, 2019 • 36 min
Let’s talk how you know you are making what you are making. It’s through putting systems in place. Today we are talking on farm quality assurance systems, I promise they aren’t as scary as you think! Join us to learn about PQA Plus, BQA, LQA, FQA Find out…
51- The Cost of Doing Nothing
Sep 26, 2019 • 28 min
When we choose anger over empowerment When we choose to avoid food safety planning by being angry it costs us a LOT It costs our health, our wealth, and our relationships. What is your inaction or your anger costing you?
50- Chemical Hygiene Plans
Sep 19, 2019 • 22 min
This is one of those topics where people just simply tune out. They know that they are supposed to do it, and they just don’t. Why is that? Cause it is boring Cause it is hard (not really) Cause they are afraid of it Let’s clear that up shall we?
49- Food Safety Behaviors
Sep 12, 2019 • 28 min
Food safety is all about action. Often times, we act first, believe second. So what are those actions? How do we actually mitigate risk? What does that mean for leading and serving ourselves, our teams and our customers?
48- Internal Audits
Sep 5, 2019 • 29 min
What could be more fun for a food facility than doing internal audits? Well, I love to do them, and now you can to! But seriously folks, internal audits are the difference between the results you have and the results you want. Why? Because if you decide…
47- Next level thinking
Aug 29, 2019 • 15 min
Join me on a trip through a thought download. What does it look like when I confront the thoughts that keep me up at night? Thought work is a learned and learnable skill that requires vulnerability. Join me on this amazing journey.
46- Calibration
Aug 22, 2019 • 15 min
What if how you did calibration was how you did everything? Listen in and learn what I mean…
45- Finding Your Purpose
Aug 15, 2019 • 22 min
What does finding your purpose look like? Sit and think Health, Wealth, Relationships What are some themes that have run through your life? What does your future self think? How did I do it? Why bother at all?
44- Testing and Monitoring
Aug 8, 2019 • 28 min
Testing doesn’t have to be complicated. I promise Join Dr. P as as she walks you thru both FSIS N60 testing and USDA/FDA environmental monitoring for Listeria. If you are still overwhelmed, book a call and we’ll get you straightened out…
43 - How to keep the doors open
Aug 1, 2019 • 19 min
A follow up to the emergency call y’all heard about last week. How do you keep the doors open? 1) Observe 2) Train 3) Act 4) Document Now you know how to keep the doors open.
42 - Wealth Creation encore
Jul 26, 2019 • 13 min
This is an encore presentation of Wealth Creation…. What would happen if you opened up your business plan and put Food Safety costs in there? The real costs?I kid you not, you would build wealth in your organization and your life by doing food safety…
41- Stop Overeating part 2
Jul 18, 2019 • 26 min
How much time do you spend thinking about what you are going to eat next? Or regretting what you ate? How much time would you have if, say, you didn’t do that? A lot. A lot more time to go out and solve the problems you were meant to solve in the world.…
40- Product Defect Waste
Jul 11, 2019 • 27 min
OK folks…do you even know what your product IS? Let’s define that first. THEN let’s talk about how to measure defects. What are the best ways to measure defects? Listen to the end to get the handout that is super easy to start with TODAY.
39- Stop Over Eating for Food Execs
Jul 3, 2019 • 21 min
I mean seriously, who else but Dr. P is gonna tackle stop over eating in the food industry. In this episode we talk about the reasons we over eat and how to bring awareness to your eating process. And guess what? Feeling your feelings is the trick to…
38- The 8th Waste of Lean
Jun 27, 2019 • 23 min
You’ve heard me talk about the importance of lean processing before on the podcast and how following this methodology helps eliminate waste in your facility. But today we’re going to talk about the importance of one of those wastes specifically: The waste…
37 - What do you want to believe
Jun 20, 2019 • 28 min
Join me on the podcast this week where I talk about the unharnessed power of your beliefs. And how when you believe in the power of the future—YOUR future—you harness the power to decide who you want to be and how you want to grow your business.
36 - FDA Regulations and Foodpreneurs
Jun 13, 2019 • 20 min
Join me this week where I’ll cover what it means to be regulated by the FDA and the steps to take to be compliant. Plus, scroll down to download our handy white paper to help you get prepared.
35 - Shame, vulnerability, and courage
Jun 6, 2019 • 19 min
Join me this week on the podcast where we talk about the importance of managing your feelings and how working with a coach can set you up for true success when building your dream business.
34 - 5S your Facility Part II
May 29, 2019 • 25 min
This week is more of Dr. P and Charlie Tidd discussing the basis of 5S in food manufacturing and how they can help you in your own facility.
33 - 5S your Facility
May 23, 2019 • 19 min
Join us this week on the podcast where Dr. P and Charlie Tidd talk about the basis of 5S in food manufacturing and how they can help you in your own facility.
32 - Courage and Commitment
May 16, 2019 • 17 min
Join me this week on the podcast where I’ll teach you the one thing that will allow you to summon the courage and commitment to be able to do absolutely anything you put your mind to.
31 - Facilities
May 9, 2019 • 20 min
Join me this week on the podcast where we talk about the amazing asset your facilities program is and how it, when invested in, builds wealth for your company.
30 - Failing ahead of time
May 2, 2019 • 21 min
Join me this week on the podcast where we’ll talk about how scheduling weekly epic fails allow you to become familiar—and ok with!—failure so you can reach your goals faster. Get ready for an amazing episode, folks!
29 - Decision making and failure
Apr 25, 2019 • 15 min
What if decisions were neutral? How fast would you make decisions if you knew that your life was going to be amazing no matter what? That you could do anything given any decision that you make? You’d make more money (indecision is the primary way that my…
28 - Impossible Goals
Apr 18, 2019 • 21 min
You can live in your future, even when you don’t know the how. Crazy ehh? Here’s what we are going to do today: 1. Decide on your impossible goal 2. Write it down 3. Schedule actions over the next month where you’ll fail forward 4. Coach yourself on what…
27 - Having the hard conversations
Apr 11, 2019 • 37 min
Dr. Pfannenstiel appeared on the Exemplar Global Food Safety Expo to teach STRIVE. This powerful tool allows anyone to solve any problem at work by addressing the root cause of problems…our thoughts.
26 Trace and Lotting
Apr 4, 2019 • 17 min
What if you could track things from your customer to your supplier? After this episode you are going to know to to know where everything is! You are going to find out way more about your inventory and inventory cost that you thought possible This will…
25 - The Value of Coaching
Apr 2, 2019 • 22 min
Approaching your life and your business with openness and intentionality will help you achieve the results that you want.
24 - Receiving, refrigeration, and storage
Mar 21, 2019 • 22 min
When you do receiving, refrigeration, and storage right, you will be vastly more efficient. You will have higher profit margins. You will be more secure that all your cold storage is cold. You will sleep better. You will have time to do other, more…
Minisode 2: Stop overdrinking for foodpreneurs
Mar 17, 2019 • 13 min
Do you overdrink? Do you not want to. Listen in to find out how we tackle overdrinking here at SFBDI
23- Time management
Mar 14, 2019 • 29 min
Foodpreneurs This week, we are covering time management Why? When you show up to getting your stuff done, you will make more money. Not only that you’ll make more profit because you will be vastly more efficient by making decisions ahead of time You will…
22- Tech talk: Preventive and Productive Maintenance
Mar 7, 2019 • 26 min
Maintenance, I get it, it’s a pain. But if you follow the plan and do it, here’s your results… Have more uptime More uptime equals more profit More uptime means you have more emotional energy to go and do the stuff that drives your business forward Sleep…
21- Emotional Adulthood
Feb 28, 2019 • 24 min
When you rely on yourself to feel good, you have better ideas to drive your own prosperity When you stop relying on other people, on circumstances to make you feel good, you will take control of yourself and your own feelings You are going to become aware…
20- Tech Talk: Observations
Feb 21, 2019 • 25 min
What would happen if you found out how things really work in your facility?? Observations help you learn your truth. Truth creates wealth Standing around observing people in your facility? Teaches you to be brave. Being brave at work changes everything.…
19- Manuals and boundaries
Feb 14, 2019 • 19 min
What are manuals and boundaries? What if you could release people, including yourself from them What if you let go of all the manuals; see people how they really are, see yourself for how you really are. See reality for what it is. I’ve got to say the…
18- Tech Talk: Hazards and hazard based plans
Feb 7, 2019 • 31 min
Today we are going to clear up what we mean by hazards and hazard based plans. Then, let’s get some clarity on what is and is not a HACCP plan Next, decide on whether or not you need a HACCP or preventive controls plan. Remember, decision making is wealth…
17- Food safety as wealth creation in your business
Jan 31, 2019 • 13 min
What would happen if you opened up your business plan and put Food Safety costs in there? The real costs? I kid you not, you would build wealth in your organization and your life by doing food safety well You’ll have a more realistic cost structure so…
16- Tech Talk: Corrective Actions and Preventive Actions
Jan 24, 2019 • 21 min
How you do corrective actions is the metric of your food safety culture At the end of this episode you can download the CAPA Program, so stick around! Do you stand in the truth of your organization? When you do, you will make decisions faster. Faster…
Minisode 2: Thinking overwork
Jan 24, 2019 • 3 min
Are you over thinking your problems in lieu of being uncomfortable in the actions of solving your problem? Think, feel, act, fail, learn, grow.
Minisode 1: What sets your heart on fire?
Jan 20, 2019 • 7 min
As we move into the new year, ask yourself: - what do you want to be an example of? - how do you want to show up in the world?
15- Entrepreneurship mindset
Jan 17, 2019 • 15 min
What is the Entrepreneur Mindset magic formula? (hint, it is deceptively simple, but not easy) A flexible mind is your greatest asset as an entrepreneur. Doing your thought work is the quickest way to get from point A to point B You will have clarity on…
14- Lean Manufacturing. We have GOT to talk about this in small food.
Jan 10, 2019 • 28 min
Foodpreneurs, today, we are going to introduce lean manufacturing into local food Learn how to take the 8 wastes of lean, and observe your processes to drive dramatic results. You are going to see your facility in a whole new light. When you waste less,…
13- Buffering
Jan 4, 2019 • 16 min
Buffering is when we use external things to change how we feel emotionally. It’s something we do to keep from fully experiencing our lives, to hide from reality, to procrastinate, to not show up and face the music and face ourselves and our feelings. We…
11: Time Management
Dec 31, 2018 • 14 min
What if we could stand in discomfort and make massive progress? People who are willing to stand in discomfort are able to do anything Imagine: You will stop beating yourself up and telling yourself you’ll get things done, cause you’ll actually get things…
4: Tech Talk- Supplier Approvals
Dec 31, 2018 • 30 min
Garbage in, garbage out folks. What supplies do you use in your food and how are your customers mitigating the risk of your food? Learn what everyone needs to know from meat and poultry, to fish to produce, and everything in between!
12 Tech Talk: Verification and Validation
Dec 28, 2018 • 20 min
Verification and Validation, they are a headache and half to most folks. You’ve written your food safety plan, and now you have even more work? Seriously?? So how do we actually do verification and validation? It is actually pretty simple: Figure out what…
10 Tech Talk: How to survive a recall.
Dec 14, 2018 • 27 min
What if during a recall you thought “I can handle anything” Learn how to manage your mind to: - Reduce the time associated with a recall and save money - Change your entire outlook on how a recall affects your business - Actually get some sleep and stop…
9- Future Focus
Dec 7, 2018 • 12 min
Are you creating a future built on your past? Or do you want to create a future based on who you are going to be in the world when you have the results you want. Listen in and learn how.
8- Audits for fun and profit!
Nov 30, 2018 • 19 min
Let’s talk audits. Do you need one? What kind are there? When should you get one?
7: S.T.R.I.V.E
Nov 16, 2018 • 29 min
How do you overcome all the obstacles in your business and your life? Through S.T.RI.V.E. Join us on this amazing journey
6: Tech Talk: Sanitation!
Nov 9, 2018 • 19 min
Cleaning and sanitation. There’s no substitute for understanding your process and doing it right. Learn how. And then, go download our pre-op checklist
5- Get more clients and make more money
Nov 2, 2018 • 30 min
Learn the system I’ve used to grow my business by 50%, year after year. I am not kidding.
3 Stop selling food, and start selling results
Oct 17, 2018 • 18 min
Stop selling food, start selling results Let’s talk about why people don’t buy food and why your sales conversations are super frustrating Don’t you wish you could get to your target market so you can make more money/sell more product to those who want…
2 Tech Talk: GMPs
Oct 17, 2018 • 35 min
Are you creating the conditions to create safe food? Well, that’s what GMPs do! Tune in to find out the actions you need to take to make a difference. Listeners that stick out through the end will find out how to get our special bonus Facilities SOP!
1 Intros and The Model
Oct 17, 2018 • 25 min
Guess what? Falling into overwhelm and confusion is EXPENSIVE. What if you could Understand how the facts of the world around us, our thoughts, feelings, actions and results are related? You could looking at yourself and look at your surroundings and not…