In this hallway-style conversation (originally recorded as a video), a16z general partner Alex Rampell and Terry Angelos, SVP of Commerce Solutions at Visa, discuss the trials and tribulations of their time as co-founders of TrialPay, an e-commerce payment and promotions platform. The story begins with their serendipitous initial meeting twelve years ago; tracks the obstacles overcome, rise, and eventual acquisition of TrialPay (by Visa in 2015); and ends with reflections on the future landscape and potential of payments. How can a third party increase profits for all parties involved? And how can a payments startup make a splash in an industry dominated by a few well-known incumbents?